good morning. and welcome to "this week." it's a two-man race. >> we did it again. >> santorum sweeps the south. can he take the fight to the convention? >> the time is now for conser conservatives to pull together. >> can mitt romney regain his momentum? and how will republicans reunite after this bruising primaries. then the white house on offense. >> mitt romney. rick santorum and newt gingrich, these guys have a fundamentally

different economic philosophy than we do. and on defense, after a tragedy in afghanistan. >> this is a hard work. >> that and the rest of "this week" politics with our powerhouse roundtable. george will, haley barbour, bill burton, nia-malika henderson and david ignatius. good morning, everyone. george stephanopoulos has a well-deserved morning off. it's been a wild week on the campaign trail with voters in alabama and mississippi giving rick santorum's campaign a lifeline. yet in the all-important delegate race, mitt romney still holds a big lead with 496 delegates. romney has twice than rick santorum and is almost at the magic number. but our headliner this morning

has been on a roll, former senator rick santorum joins us now, good morning, senator. >> good morning, jonathan. >> senator, front page of the "new york times" this morning, the republicans are girding for a floor fight. you have been saying, basically that nobody can get a majority of the delegates before the convention, are you saying that your best chance of winning this nomination is a fight on the convention floor? >> well, we still believe that there are plenty of delegates out there to do what we have been doing which is actually going out and winning the tough states and battles. with pretty overwhelming odds. to deal with congressman, speaker gingrich who is in this race, and being outspent, you know here in illinois, when i was just there yesterday, by 10 to 1, yet we're hanging in

there, we're fighting. we're climbing. we got the best message, the best contrast with president obama and the best vision for our country and i think that's what people are responding to and i think they're getting tired of the negative ads. they're tired of tearing down the other side which romney has been doing now for two elections in a row and providing no real vision for the country. >> how likely do you think itiss coming to a battle on the convention floor? >> i don't it dooms anybody's chances. this is a primary process, where somebody had a huge advantage. huge money advantage. huge advantage of establishment support and he hasn't been able to close the deal and even come close to closing the deal. that tells you that there's a real flaw there. the fact of -- as i said before, having a great message, the

republicans and congreservative lining up behind us, spuz ya yastly, fighting the convention. people are looking for something different and for something they can go after president obama and make the contrast. yesterday, out on the road in illinois, there's increasingly the more i look at the record of mitt romney and president obama the same issues that i'm campaigning against romney are the same issues that i'm going to campaign against barack obama on. cap and trade. trying to control the manufacturing and energy sector of the economy and of course, you know, the bailouts, all of these things are, you know, unfortunately governor romney and barack obama are in the same place. >> are you saying that there's not much difference between romney and obama? >> on those issues there clearly

isn't. jon, those were the issues that spurred our victory in 2010 was this idea of government mandates and control of the economy and the bailouts and the attempt to try to take over the energy use in our country through cap and trade, and of course, the successful takeover of the economy, obama care, romney is on the same page as barack obama on all of these issues. you know what, again, you see conservatives across the country rejecting someone that they don't see a difference with this president. >> you know, gingrich has suggested, newt gingrich has suggested that he's helping you out here, by staying in the race he's making it harder for romney to get a majority of the delegates. you believe this is a two-man race, is it time for a head to head debate, you and mitt

romney. >> i would love to have a head to head debate with governor romney the idea for example, he pushes back and said that romney care is nothing like obama care and he never advocated for it but of course he did on op-eds and on television ads. when he was questioned by fred thompson in the 2000 election, he said i love mandates. he defended his record in massachusetts and in fact argued for exactly what president obama put in place, government-mandated health care. i would love to get one-on-one with governor rom noa and expose to record that would be the weakest record that we could possibly put up against barack obama. we did very well yesterday in missouri. i think we're going to do really well in illinois. even though we're being outspent

and of course gingrich is on the ballot. still, we're hanging in there because people are seeing, they're coming around to the fact that we can't nominate such a weak candidate in the general election >> i heard from you a challenge for head to head debate with mitt romney. do it here on "this week." >> i accept. see if governor romney is willing to come out. he's hiding behind the billionaires who's are funding his super pacs. all running negative ads. not talking about the issues that people are talking about at the kitchen table. lot of the criticisms that he's leveling against me are things that he himself are done but far worse. like giving money to planned parenthood personally. i mean, this is someone who will say anything to get elected and

i think, again, people are recognizing they want the genuine article. >> now, puerto rico primary today, you spent some time down there. took some heat suggesting that if puerto rico where to become a state that they would need to have english as an official language. >> they would have to speak english, that would be a requirement. it's a requirement that we put on other states. so, what did you mean by that if there's no requirement for official english right now. >> yeah, there were requirements put on other states when they come into the union that english be the official language. several states, there were other languages spoken in the southwest, oklahoma and hawaii. so it was a condition of admission to state hood and that's simply what i said, only 15% are fluent in english in

puerto rico what i said, puerto rico is a spanish-speaking island and they'll continue to speak spanish, that's their culture, but what i have said, there should be fluency in english as well as spanish. and if they want to -- it makes sense in this country, romney and i have said that we would like english as the official language of this country. when romney went to puerto rico said, you don't have to speak english to be a requirement. he panders for vote knowing full well that there's no way he would stand for that, puerto rico coming into state hood without proficiency in english. but to get 20 delegates, he'll say whatever he needs to say to get those votes.

>> all right, let's turn to foreign policy, obviously it's been a rough, rough week in afghanistan, i mean really a couple of months, you have heard newt gingrich sut that it's time to get out, what is your sense? is it time to pull the plug on the war in afghanistan? >> you know, this is a terrible tragedy, things that have been occurring, obviously some of them are simply that, tragedies of people doing irrational things. the bigger issue here is the policy of this administration the policy of this administration, does something that you can't do if you want to win the war and that is give them hope that they can survive and that's what the president has done. he put a time line for us to leave afghanistan. once you give a time line you give the enemy an objective to hold on to bunker down if you will and survive whatever onslaught the united states is

going to put forth and the other problem you have all of those actors in the region, from the pakistans to afghans, opposing the taliban. the u.s. isn't going to be there to finish the job. you created an untenable situation. in some respects i agree with congressman gingrich, if this is the game plan, then why are we still there? let's e either commit to winning or let's get out. >> okay, what does president santorum do? do you commit to winning, what does that take? or do you say it's time to get out? >> well, i think if you commit to winning you change the entire dynamic in the region, you change the dynamic with respect to the taliban and you recognize that we're going to stay there and finish the job. by the way, it may not be the heavy footprint that we have in

afghanistan now. there's a lot of ways in which we can play and be an effective actor in that country and certainly i would work with our experts in that area to see what true complement we would need and work with the afghan government to make sure we commit to them to be successful whatever that means. >> okay, i want to turn to the economy, give you a chance to respond to something that we heard, pretty extraordinary statement from mitt romney about you and your credentials on the economy. take a listen. >> we're not going to be successful in replacing an economic lightweight, if we economic lightweight. i'm an economic heavyweight. i know how this economy works. >> oshg, are you an economic lightweight? >> when a candidate has to tell

you that he cares about the american people, that tells something number one. i think -- i don't go around telling people that i care about them, i show them i care about them. number two, if mitt romney's economic heavyweight, we're. trouble. we was 47th out of 50 in job creation in massachusetts. he may have had some success at bayne capital, that's a very different thing than going out and creating an atmosphere to create jobs and again, for romney to say that he's the economic heavyweight, he doesn't understand conservative principles. we believe getting government out of the way, creating

opportunity and letting the private sector do these things. this is mitt romney, again the ceo trying to go in and manage someone. we don't need a manager. we need someone to transform washington and get it out of the hair of people in the private sector, reduce regulations, and cut taxes dramatically. we do. he doesn't. his program according to wall street journal is weak and timid. ours is bold. we talk about getting jobs for everyone in our economy. getting manufacturing jobs back here, growing the energy sector. i was for growing the energy sector and harvesting the region. >> all right, your stance on pornography has gotten a lot of attention this week. this is from your website. you said that america is suffering a pandemic of harm from pornography it causes

profound brain changes in both children and adults resulting in widespread negative consequences, what did you mean by that? >> well, you know, we do something rather unusual in our campaign, when people write into our campaign and ask for our opinions we post them on the website. someone was asking about the fact that president obama and his attorney general don't enforce the existing pornography laws and we wrote back and posted it on our website, we would enforce those laws as president. we understood that hard-core pornography is damaging. and of course it's very damaging to a lot of folks. >> what do you do about it? >> you enforce the laws. there are laws against purveying hard-core pornography. we have attorney generals in the country under president bush who

prosecuted that. but this administration hasn't. >> okay, and finally, i got to ask you, you mentioned how liberal mitt romney is, you back in 1996 supported arlen specter for president, one-issue candidacy, pro-choice candidate. take a listen to what he said when he announced his campaign for president, you were on the stage. >> i want to take abortion out of politics. and leave moral issues, such as abortion to the conscience of the individual. a matter to be decided by women not by big government. take a look. i think we have a screen graph from you. you were on the stage with him. probably his most -- maybe his most prominent supporter, why did you support arlen specter for president. >> well, when you're a colleague

is running for office, then i was his colleague in the united states senate, he asked me to stand with me, certainly not one of my proudest moments that i look back on. you work for the state of pennsylvania, i felt that senator spector stood up and supported me. eni was running in 1996, i knew that arlen speckser t er ther e going nowhere. >> two quick ones, your top aide, raised the issue of seamus the dog, rode atop mitt romney's car, do you think this is an issue for the campaign in. >> when i was standing behind senator specter, rom mooe was

pro-choice. he was echoing the same themes that senator specter was echoing. i was standing up during that time fietding the partial birth abortion act. as far as seamus the dog, i would say, look the issues of character is important in this election. >> all right, well, seamus the dog i think we'll be hearing more about him going forward. thank you, senator santorum, we appreciate your time. >> thank you very much, jonathan. we turn now to our roundtable. we're joined as always george will, columnist david ignatius,

nia-malika henderson, bill burton and davhaley bar bower. george? >> since the multiplication of primaries in the last 50 years, conventi conventions have become ratifying bodies. however, both santorum and gingrich now say their objective isn't really to win 1144 delegates but to stop romney from doing it. this week, gingrich wanted to emulate warren harding. he went to the 1920 convention way behind. then in room 404, the original smoke-filled room, he finally wound up winning this. that's their hope. >> really, nia, if you look at

the numbers, though, romney needs to do better than he has been doing to clinch >> it he does. he has this big contest coming up on tuesday. this is it or bust. the math looks good for him. better for him than santorum. there are some southern primaries coming up, he'll have some wins here, i think, santorum. he has momentum going in for this. the hard thing is to gain momentum if he keeps coming in second. gingrich will stay in this thing. he's santorum's frenemy. i think he'll be able to play into this strategy that santorum's campaign outlined in this memo on monday. >> governor barbour, i think newt gingrich is right about this, if he stays in, if he gets

out, not all of his votes magically go to rick santorum, he's taking votes away from mitt romney. >> but it's up to the primary voters who are left between now and there. we have had twice, three times really, governor romney looked like he was poised to begin coalessing and each time he lost the next week, and now we're at another junction. if it's a convention and we get there with nobody having the vote, the last time it was 1976. ford made up space. a contested convention isn't necessarily all bad. if the incumbent's convention is

contested. in 1980 carter was hurt badly. but it didn't necessarily bad to have a convention, when the republican voters decide we'll go from there. >> that's interesting. david, usually what we hear from your colleagues is that this would be doom, another five months of republican infighting. what romney said this plays right into obama's hands. >> well, if santorum is the come from behind kid who just gets stronger and stronger as a candidate and he has gotten stronger in these last races and that sense of inevitably falls away more and more from romney, coming into a close convention where romney supporters crumble even more. it comes out of to convention, having won a big one that people didn't expect. >> you'll sign up for a brokered convention in

>> it's interesting to listen to mitt romney on this. he plans other people for reasons that help president. mitt romney's problem is mitt romney. when you listened to him over this week, we shifted it to delegate math, you can see why he's having trouble catching on. if i'm his campaign, i would focus on the economy, not going on television day after day talking about the different m h mathematical scenarios. >> you know, hillary clinton and barack obama that was a bruising battle that went into june, last time i checked it didn't hurt you guys in. >> it's hard to say this campaign is just like that campaign. this time around you've got rick santorum, mitt romney and newt gingrich, fighting over whether

planned parenthood should exist, contraception. in this week, i think it's hard to argue that mitt romney is stronger as a result as a long, extended fight. >> i don't think that anyone thinks that the way it's played out in the primaries, it hasn't helped. if this republican nick nick nick kind of primary is hurting he should be soaring. he's not soaring. people know that this is referendum on the president's policies. >> people on the republican side would love to see this as a referendum. but let's take one state for

example, michigan, you had a real knockdown drawn-out fight between rick santorum and mitt romney and the result is that mitt rom mooe is down 18 points to president obama as a result of that primary in state. >> it's early, george. >> i want to go back to the convention, one thing that would be very bad is to have a repeat of 1952, eisenhower and taft in a tight race. if he wins delegate challenges, florida broke the rules this year by having a winner take all primary. if there's a challenge to that, any way the challenge to the seating of particular delegations -- >> there will be a challenge to that. you'll see a challenge in arizona. a big fight over those issues. we got to take a quick break, lot more to go with our

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mitt romney, rick santorum and newt gingrich, these guys have a fundamentally different economic philosophy than we do. >> when some of these folks were around when columbus set sail, they must have been founders of the flat earth society. >> if give any one of these guys the keys to the white house they will bankrupt the middle class again. >> they would probably have agreed with the pioneers that television wouldn't last. it's flash in the pan. george, couple of weeks ago, you wrote that the republicans should throw in the toll on the presidential race. anything that you heard over the last two weeks change your stance? >> there may come a point i said when political being finite, enthusiasm, time and

money, you might concentrate getting all of the committees in the republican hands. not time to do that. but, what haley said a moment ago, is right, things are badly for republicans. the president's job approval is going down driven by gas for pete's sake. so at this point, i would say, keep fighting. but prepare to retrench. >> and yet, i mean, you think this should be a high-water mark for the president, the economy is coming back, republicans, i mean, haley, it couldn't have much worse for the republicans, look at his approval ratings, david. >> his numbers show that he's isn't being given credit by the public for his big achievements. but we saw this week, the president and the vice president beginning a real campaign. to take to the country the idea

they have been effective in dealing with challenges. they'll take like they did in the video about the problems they inherited and the things they have done. we have already seen that this president will run on the fact that he went after osama bin laden and killed him. so, i think they're revving up. we'll have to see how obama communicates politically with the country as the campaign really gets started. >> governor, what's your take? you heard a good sense of where they're going to come at you? you're not a flat-evert guy, by the way? >> reminder the american people are being told by the news media how great the economy is. well, the economy is not great out in america. maybe it's gotten better. but it reminds me of a country music from my youth, it's been

down so long it's up to me now. the obama administration, you have to go back to 1983 to find that small of percentage of americans were working and 10% were working part time, so, yes, we have had some improvements on jobs. lord we need a lot more, because the last real recession we had in the 1980s, we were creating jobs at 700,000 jobs a month and we weren't out bragging about creating jobs at 200,000. >> people are still hurting. >> the clint eastwood ad that it's halftime in america. it's look at where our country is versus where it was. the private second jobs created.

the economy growing. yes, things are getting better, but not at a pace where the president has demonstrated any satisfaction. i think what you have a difference between the president saying we're moving at the right trajectory and the republicans saying we're almost about to fall off a cliff. the american people are hopeful and optimistic about where this country is going. ultimately that will be a big difference in this election. >> i mean, you see romney reframing this and santorum s h saying that the economy is getting better. and i think you see santorum in some ways this can't be a campaign all about economy, it has to be about social issues. >> they could lose the edge on economy. he apparently wants to talk

about pornography. that energizes the base. whether or not this is damaging for the republicans on a whole? one of the things that it's doing this protracted race is keeping the base energized. if they thought they had a shot at this and in the end, they lost, i heard from republicans that would be satisfying for them. >> are we going to be fighting this on pornography, contraception -- >> 2010 was the greatest referendum of an incumbent president's policy in decades. this will be a referendum on his policies. and the big policy right now that people are concerned about right now is energy. because terrible energy policy for three years has brought about very high gas prices. when you have had three years of

terrible policy, designed to drive up the cost of energy, so americans would lose less of it, whether it's the more tourism in the gulf, all of those things are going to lead to very high energy prices, which after all, the president's secretary of energy called for. what we need in america is to get the price of gasoline up to where it is in europe. >> yesterday the wall street journal, front page story, talked about gas prices are going to be a essential issue in the campaign, yet the "new york times," a story here saying people care about the gas prices matter but it doesn't sway voters. >> the twice weekly reminder at

the pump, there are fewer americans working today than they were working 11 years ago i don't think people take their sense of well being from the headline metrics. this week we were told by a noble prize winning economists at this rate of job creation, we'll reach something like full employment in 13 years and i think the american people -- >> you know, people make their decisions at election time on the margin, they think, are things getting a little bit better? have the they been improving in these last six months or the year? the economy is firming. talking to a senior treasury official this week he said one fascinating thing, the business investment is beginning to grow much faster than the growth of gdp. if that happens, you begin to

get an accelerator. >> well, if i can make one point on what governor barbour was saying on energy prices and oil policy. this administration has expanded oil production more than we have seen in the last ten years, quadrupled the number of riggs that are operating. dozens of pipelines have been approved around moving forward. energy production is the highest it's been in this country. >> this is ball of shell oil in north dakota, oil? >> when the president could do something, he did do things to extend domestic production. the bottom line that is not enough. the price of oil isn't driven what the president can do, there are broader global factors. like demand in russia and china.

>> just one pipeline, governor? >> look, you made the point, jonathan, the explosion in oil and gas production in the united states, is on private island, not one dime being contributed to hiydraulic fracking. they have to regulate hydraulic fracturing. they need to regulate what has caused an explosion of natural gas production in the united states. >> all right, i want to turn to afghanistan, it does look like this election is going to be large about the economy, but afghanistan came back this week in a big way. a staff ar gent went on a massacre, killing 16 people.

karzai actually calling americans demons on friday. president obama asking everyone to remain calm, hold the course in afghanistan. >> why do poll numbers indicate people are interested in ending the war in afghanistan? it's because we have been there for ten years and people get weary and no friends and neighbors have lost neighbors. no one wants war. >> governor, i'm hearing republicans getting more and more weary about afghanistan, we couldn't get a direct answer out of senator santorum. >> jonathan, as you know, when i was thinking about running for president last january, 15 months ago, i said we need to rethink our policy in afghanistan, in fact, policy change for the bush administration war on terror to nation-building and it changed without any kind of conversation

with the american people, you got 100 or more, 100 al qaeda many afghanistan reports the cia, we have 100,000 troops there a year ago, so why? because we have changed the mission and when you change the mission, the american people need to have -- >> this was general petraeus change -- >> this is what president obama said was the good war. the war in the iraq was the wrong war, the president said. the president made the decision, i happened to be in afghanistan when the ambassador was against that. let me say again, there are lot of republicans who were very strongly for afghanistan if the target was the war on terror, to nation building. ask george will. >> time to pull the plug? >> i said year and a half ago, we need to rethink this.

why do we need 100,000 troops on the ground when there's 100 al qaeda terrorists in afghanistan? and there are a lot of republicans who have expredsed that view. >> and joe biden internally. >> in the second decade of what is the longest war in our history, not surprising that the american people are out of patience. in terms of their impact on domestic opinion, a slow-motion offensive. the offensive in vietnam was a huge military offense and a defeat for the north vietnamese. it shattered america support and that's what's happening now. the american people have said, we can't define the mission, no one can tell us what winning would look like. we have mission gallop to buildingbuild ing democracy it is time to come

home. >> i think governor barbour and george are right in saying that the president is not communicating to the public a clear strategy for what we're doing over the next two years. we have made a commitment with our nato allies. we'll stay in afghanistan until the end of 2014, there is a timetable for the withdrawal. the argument that you would make is that if we pull the plug and rush out, we almost guarantee a civil war returning to afghanistan, a partition that would be very ragged and developments that would be contrary to our interest. the president somehow has to sell this proposition that we're not fighting for a victory to plant the flag and say we won it, we're fighting for a degree of stability and civility in this dangerous place.

what i think, if the president is going to make the case he has do it better and more clearer. >> a few years from now, the basic asymmetry will prevail. which is, sooner or later we're coming home and the taliban are home. >> day are home, i mean, i go there pretty often and i what hear every time i go, the taliban remain unpopular, these are not liberation fight thaers the country is -- >> two demons, he was referring to the taliban and the americans. >> president karzai is extremely unreliable, that's the thing that our commanders, i feel so sorry for our ambassador ryan crocker. struggling to deal with this karzai government, one day says goes back to your bases. what we have seen in the past,

karzai comes back, you get a collaboration of -- if there's no cooperation between u.s. an afghan forces so there can be a transition from u.s. to afghan control next year there is no control. >> people stepping into this gap, the muddle pass that obama has, when you listen to santorum comments, he didn't want to say. what you have heard from romney as well, he gave a speech in october of 2011, where he said that he would listen to the generals, where he thinks that pullouts should be closer to december 2012 than the fall. you don't hear people in these town hall meetings with republicans bringing this issue up. it has receded from the public's mind. it comes up. only bad news flowing out of this. you have seen a president who's really been able to eat into the

franchise that was national security for republicans. they seem to be very muddled with -- >> he never talks about the afghanistan, it almost never comes up. >> this week, the president talked quite a bit of afghanistan in defense of the president when he laid out his strategy against afghanistan, we said that we're going to degrade al qaeda and strengthen the security forces. if you look at the picture of al qaeda right now, 22 of the top 30 leaders are dead. the security obviously still needs to be strengthen there. i think the president laid out a very clear strategy, maybe message doesn't get through every single day. the second thing, there has been abject incohearns from the republican side. imagine governor barbour were in it. a coherent thought about afghanistan. for mitt romney you get

everything from immediate withdrawal to indefinite presence in the country. i think romney has left been left woefully unprepared. >> what is the most important thing we're learning from osama bin laden's capture? >> we wanted that osama bin laden wanted to kill obama. my take away was this man rooting in this compound, increasingly felt that al qaeda had blown it. that it so alienated itself from muslims around the world that it should come up with a new name, the name al qaeda. >> a marketing problem for al qaeda. >> a rebranding exercise. >> so, he was a man was

surrounded by the loss of his come reads, increasingly depaired. george clooney talking on the hill and going to white house and getting arrested. i caught up with him right after he was released. you think you accomplished something by getting arrested here in. >> you never know that if you're accomplishing anything. >> so, he was talking about sud sudan, he's worried yet about another massacre in sudan. we haven't heard much out of anybody in the political world, certainly not the president or the republicans in the congress. >> in stepped george clooney to bring attention to this. you work. you think back to south africa and that conflict there. and getting arrested i think really changed the tide in times

of the conversation. that's the strategy there, using this old-fashioned way of protesting. on the other hand, you have this newfangled w being attention with yuganda with the kony video. >> clooney is serious about this. this was a big issue for george bush, one thing that president obama criticized e then-senator obama criticized president bush for not doing enough of. >> i don't doubt that clooney's seriousness. i don't doubt the awfulness that's going on. again, he's talking to a country that's suffering from fatigue of foreign involvement. >> jonathan, not just that, david mentioned powerful words talking about afghanistan and karzai. he said clients. america don't want to fight wars for our clients.

we want to fight for our interests. we'll talk more about the republican race for president and he'll answer questions about those controversial pardons after he left office in mississippi. i'll be back in a moment to answer some of your questions but first, we pause to honor our fellow americans who serve and sacrificed. the pentagon released the names of three soldiers killed in afghanistan. every time a local business opens its doors or creates another laptop bag or hires another employee, it's not just good for business, it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact that local businesses have on communities. that's why we extended $6.4 billion in new credit to small businesses across the country last year. because the more we help them,

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know, do you tend to gain weight when you're on the campaign trail? well, i was just in tuscaloosa, alabama, and ran into this place where i had some excellent pulled pork, great stuff. but it can be definitely be hazardous. a week earlier in ohio, look at these doughnuts, you eat this stuff you gain weight. rick santorum, this photo went out. him in puerto rico sunning. he said after seeing the photo he could stand to lose 10, 15 pounds. that's all for us today. "world news" has david muir with the latest headlines tonight. thanks for sharing part of your sunday with us. george stephanopoulos will be back here next week. hey, did you ever finish last month's invoices?

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